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"Da Vinci's Demons" Sodomy Trial Post-Mortem: Tom Riley & David S. Goyer

Tom Riley (left) and David S. Goyer weigh in on the controversial "The Tower" episode.

We’ve read your comments on the portrayal of Leonardo Da Vinci’s sexuality on the Starz series Da Vinci’s Demons. In fact, star Tom Riley also left a comment on Friday's interview post responding to readers directly.  Here is the second half of my interview with Riley as well as email responses from creator David S. Goyer that discuss in detail what we saw in last Friday's episode in terms of the sodomy charges, the importance of the intimate scene between Da Vinci and Jacopo Saltarelli and if we can expect to see Da Vinci have relations with any more men in the near – or distant – future.

TheBacklot: How much material exists on the actual sodomy trial and how much did you draw from in the episode?  

David Goyer: I know Jacopo Saltarelli is a real person and he was part of that trial. We didn’t have a great deal of detail as to the trial. The charges were eventually dropped. They did occur as a result of an anonymous denunciation. Originally, Leonardo was accused along with some other people including an in-law of Lorenzo's. There is some evidence to suggest that the charge was politically motivated. And some evidence to suggest that Saltarelli was a bit of a hustler and possibly in the employ of someone. But it’s pretty much accepted that Leonardo was, at the very least, bisexual.

TBL: Da Vinci clearly appears unhinged in at least the first half of the episode. In some ways, was he close to insanity at this time or was this more about the unique way in which his mind worked?

DG: We wanted to portray that he'd also become unhinged, and [“The Tower” writer] Joe Ahearne wrote a beautiful script that reflected that. Originally, we’d intended for Leonardo to have been in jail for over a month before the trial started. This actually mirrored what happened historically. But the network was worried that if he was in jail for a month and we said “one month later,” the audience would wonder what had happened in the time between.  I thought that was a strange concern. We argued over it and eventually agreed upon saying he’d only been in jail for a few days -- which, in my opinion, somewhat undermined the idea that he'd become unhinged. It appears that Leonardo was deeply wounded/frightened by this experience in real life. It made a huge impression on him -- that his freedom could be snatched away for a “crime” such as this.

TBL: Let’s jump to the scene between Da Vinci and Jacopo Saltarelli. Talk to me about filming it.

Tom Riley: We were determined to show that not only was there was once something very real and strong between them, but that it hasn’t necessarily gone away. Letting Jacopo go isn’t an easy decision for Leonardo but the trial really left him with no choice. You’ll notice that later, in the bath scene with Lucrezia, just after she claims that in her pursuits ‘love is a liability,’ Leonardo responds with ‘Mine too’. I then threw a look to the secret denunciation on the bed, that we had seen in a cut away earlier, to try and subtly imply that whatever Leonardo had with Jacopo, detailed in that denunciation, was as close to true love as a man of his roving mind and insatiable curiosity could ever understand.

TBL: Why do you think it was important for us to see this scene -- especially their kiss?

DG: I feel without it, there still could be some ambivalence. For me, this was the key to the entire episode. I was adamant that we do the trial this season while some on my fellow producers wanted to shy away from it and not cause controversy this season. It led to an argument but I felt we'd be doing Leonardo a disservice if we didn't ‘go there’ this season.

Beyond that, what I'd hoped to accomplish was to narratively thread the needle -- I wanted for Leonardo to arrange to have the charges dropped, rather than to have himself be proven innocent. I felt that would be critical. That it was no one's business what people did with their sexual lives. Then, after the charges were dropped, I hoped we could sucker punch the audience and reveal that the ‘sodomy’ actually did happen (albeit consensually). I guess I wanted complicated. There was a relationship. Sodomy did happen. But, it was consensual. Jacopo felt jilted then took a bribe in order to sensationalize the charges, which were politically motivated.

The kiss was so critical, in fact, we didn’t release the scene to the network or studio beforehand. Tom, myself, the writer Joe Ahearne, and director Paul Wilmshurst conspired to keep the scene secret and shoot it on the day. We hoped that, once everyone saw the scene, they’d get it. Fortunately, they did.

TR: Once [the scene was] shot, we showed the dailies to Starz, who absolutely loved it, were 100% supportive, and determined that it would remain in the show. So it turned out we need never have worried. But with the sad restrictions and expectations placed on U.S. television by parts of its audience, it was a risk we weren’t prepared to take.

lucreza-davicni

Da Vinci with Lucrezia

TBL: Will we see any relations with men in Season 1? Or is he focused on Lucrezia? 

DG: The bulk of his focus, Season 1, is Lucrezia -- for plot-motivated reasons.

TR: He’s focused on unpicking the mystery of Lucrezia, for now. She has far more of his heart than most. Although even that is very far down in his list of priorities. But we have every intention of pursuing all the conflicting element of his sexuality in seasons ahead. Both male and female relationships. Why limit a man who refuses to be defined? On a purely mercenary level, think of the exciting options it provides from a story-telling perspective!

TBL:  The scene with the official and the pig. Where to begin!?! Was there any historical event that you drew from for this? And the use of an early film projector -- was that also one of Da Vinci's early inventions?

DG: The use of a camera obscura and a kind of arclight were taken from Da Vinci's designs. To my knowledge, he didn’t invent an early projector -- although there were certainly people at the time mucking about with stuff like that. The pig was a convention of us writers. We wanted to do something completely outrageous, that would point out the hypocrisy of the situation. Ironic that even as this airs, the Supreme Court is weighing in on gay marriage. In some ways, 15th Century Florence was more evolved than modern-day America. (But in others, obviously not.)

TBL: Tom, safe to say your first time doing a scene with a pig in a compromising position?

TR: Actually no. I try and put a pig shagging scene in every project I do. It made for some very awkward fringe festival theatre pieces in my teens.

TBL: We find out why Da Vinci's father hates Leonardo so much. Will this help them mend fences or is their relationship unable to be repaired? (We actually see him smile once Leonardo is released! Shocker!)

TR: Some divisions are too wide to be healed that easily. A grudging respect is all they can manage for now, but we have a long road ahead - and it’s clear that each secretly craves the other’s love, but just how much is something that will continue to ebb and flow. It’s a fascinating dynamic and I love working with David Schofield, so here’s to many more moments between them.

DG: We see a smile, but that doesn't necessarily mean their relationship is repaired.  They have a complicated relationship.  We're hoping to mine that more in Season 2. Again, we'll see what we can manage...

TBL: What can you tell us about the fact that Da Vinci sees that it's himself hanging in his memory? Is that truly a memory or a premonition? Will we find out soon?

TR: Maybe it’s both. As the Turk tells us, ‘time is a river, and the river is circular…’

DG: Don't want to speak too much about that.  I have very clear ideas about that and what it all means.  The network has indicated their discomfort with those ideas.  We'll see.

TBL: What will Da Vinci be coming up against in the rest of the first season?  Safe to say we'll get a big cliffhanger at the end of Season 1 or will one story wrap up and a new one begin for the second season?

DG: Don't want to say too much about the final three episodes, other than I'm really happy with how they turned out.  I think/hope the audience will feel like the story strands came together in a very satisfactory way.

Da Vinci’s Demons airs Fridays at 10pm on Starz.

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