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Dustin Lance Black Wants You to Engage Trump Supporters Across the Dinner Table

"I think it’s lazy to just lean on just science and facts and law..."

Dustin Lance Black has kicked some serious ass for LGBTQ equality, from bringing Harvey Milk’s story to screen with an Oscar to show for it, to AFER’s successful efforts to help usher in marriage equality, and of course, his very public marriage and relationship with Olympian swimmer Tom Daley, with whom he is raising a 10-month-old baby, Robbie Ray.

This strength was learned from his mother, Anne Bisch, who triumphed over childhood paralysis from polio to raise three kids and work in military hospital laboratories. She also stubbornly held conservative, homophobic, religious beliefs that put her at fierce odds with Black despite their mutual love for one another.

Black shares his mother’s story and their attempt to forge understanding in the revealing book, Mama’s Boy.

On a U.S. book tour through May 10, Black talked about his mother (who passed away in 2014), how we might also change hearts in Trumpland, Mayor Pete, and the coolest thing on the internet (it involves Speedos!).

I’m reading a book, Strangers in Their Own Land, that explores why rural voters support Trump and GOP politicians who act against their best interests, and it proposes the concept of getting over the "empathy wall" to truly understand. You recently said that it’s more about changing hearts than minds when it comes to reaching Trump voters and homophobes, so how exactly do we do that?

Well, the first thing you have to do is realize that it must be a two-way street. In this book, the reader will be able to examine the relationship I had with my mom, one where we were on opposite sides of many political issues, but we always figured out how to find common ground, a higher plane as they say.

In the last third of the book, I had to put my feet where my ideas, opinions, and experience were, and that meant traveling back to the South to Texarkana and Utah and meet with people who were my family or in my faith when I grew up and I knew I would disagree on a whole lot of issues about. If you ever hope to have them hear you, and show curiosity in your viewpoint, that’s part of the work. So often LGBT people or minorities being treated differently under the law, we’re so certain that we’re right that we’ve stopped listening. Leading with facts and science will only get the other side to double down on their firm belief, so the way to start to move past that—and I think it’s lazy to just lean on just science and facts and law—is you have to take it a step further and find personal stories, hopefully of your own, that illuminate the ways you feel the constitution ought to protect you. It’s not soft or lazy to aim for the heart. It takes more thought, work and courage, but those stories have the potential to change a heart and mind.

How did your mother permeate your work and attitudes despite her conservative beliefs?

I came into the world and the first person I saw was this beautiful woman who was very strong but couldn’t move most of her body. She had been told since age 2, when she was paralyzed from polio, that she would never walk, fall in love, have children, get a job, and I was proof that she was not going to accept those limitations. So I met someone who had very little faith in anyone or anything that used the word "impossible." It’s an inheritance I was lucky to have passed down, of proving the impossible possible. It was often surprising to some, when I was talking about our strategy for marriage equality, that I drew on many conservative stories and viewpoints and philosophies, some of which became incredibly effective as talking points and ways to communicate. Such as the golden rule—figuring out that Mormon military southerners could all agree we ought to treat our neighbors as we want to be treated ourselves. Those lessons my mom taught me, and although their roots are conservative ended up being quite effective in our fight for LGBT equality.

How do you feel about the strategy of liberals and Democrats who live in coastal cities moving back to their red state hometowns just to vote in 2020 and shift the tide to purple or blue?

Don’t be arrogant about it if you do. People are voting the way they do in those areas out of concern for their families. That’s where it’s coming from. Listen to what they’re afraid might hurt their family, and you might come to an understanding that’s illuminating for both of you. One thing I found that was an epiphany for the folks in Arkansas and Utah was they didn’t know we had families and valued families. That was eye-opening for them, so if you go don’t go like it’s an invasion. That’s rude. Go there with curiosity.

Would you take a meeting with President Trump?

Absolutely, but not televised and exploited. I’d only want to do it if it could be a constructive conversation, and photos and videos get in the way, when you’re performing for a third party. Because that would be my stipulation, it would never happen, but I think we have to be willing to share the dinner table with people we don’t agree with and have that conversation.

Your mom had polio and you’re raising an infant, so are anti-vaxxers driving you insane?

Yes. It’s silly. Maybe we’ll tackle that in the next book.

Let’s talk Mayor Pete. What are your current thoughts?

I find him very inspiring and his candidacy incredibly inspiring. The call of my great hero, Harvey Milk, in one of his most famous speeches was "you have to elect gay people because that sends a message of hope." I believe he’s doing that right now. And I’m heartened because, on his own, not as a student of Milk but perhaps out of instinct, in his opening speech he talked more about workers and the plight of families than he did about LGBT issues, and that sounded very much like Harvey, who was elected because of his alliance with union truck drivers trying to make a living wage.

Let’s talk Tom! Since you both have big social media followings and fans, what is the difference between Team Daley and Team DLB?

I probably don’t attract as many people who are obsessed with abs. I tend to have a lot of lesbian fans. It’s always been my way even at the gay bars as a youngster I drifted towards the lesbians. That might be slightly different. And I think Tom has a lot of hetero female fans.

Will you guys watch the upcoming U.K. version of Drag Race? And do you watch the U.S. one?

Absolutely. Since we’re based in the U.K., Tom and I watch RuPaul’s Drag Race on catch up, because we don’t get it live like you do so we watch it in bed at night.

Finally, what’s the coolest thing on the internet?

[Laughs] If I don’t say my husband’s YouTube channel, then I’m in big trouble. He won’t cook me dinner next week when I go home.

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